traveling in the spirit
Spiritual Travel Experiment – A Testimony
This is a testimony of spiritual travel that was sent to me by a man who did an experiment after reading my book Traveling in the Spirit Made SImple. His testimony is being published with his permission.
Praying Medic:
I just read your book about spiritual travel and something new and extraordinary just happened. I’ve had this hunger for more deep, prophetic things the last month, and after reading your book I conducted an experiment with a prophetic friend. I sent a Facebook message to her and asked her to see in the spirit in front of her for 60 seconds, and then tell me what she saw.
I then traveled by faith to her place (saw blurry first person images of flying there, landing on the grass, moving through the door, prayed for her and then returned home.) After 60 seconds she asked if I sent someone to her or if it was me. She told me that she saw a light, and then that someone stood in front of her, she felt God’s presence touch her and then she also saw an angel.
Wait for it, the best part is yet to come!
Then she felt her spirit leave her body, she could see herself in front of her. She didn’t note anything else – but I did.
Suddenly, I see in the spirit my friend sitting on my sofa, praying for me. I also see several of her angels. So I ask her if she’s here in the spirit, but she says that she isn’t aware of that, but that it felt like earlier that her spirit wanted to go somewhere.
I ask her if she can see from several perspectives, and shift between them. She basically screams (through typing!) and is now almost in shock. She tells me that she is standing in my living room and sees her personal angel coming towards her to get her back to her body. She stays for a while and the angel waits with her, and then she goes back home to her body.
I’ve NEVER experienced leaving my body before and my friend has never experienced bi-location, so I just wanted to thank you for your inspiring and helpful book! 🙂
David (from Sweden)
For more information on spiritual travel, check out my book Traveling in the Spirit Made Simple.
I'd love to hear your thoughts
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28 Comments
Jerri Langlais
Wow. And now words are escaping me, but I’m feeling envious 🙂
Cheryl Olson
Me too. We should do it Jerri!
dianadevlin
Excited for them. Awaiting the same thing for myself.
Velda Prewett
i dont know what my thoughts are but i feel a little distrubed in my spirit . ill have to pray and read the word on this one . whats your take ?
AO
I believe there is so much in the realm of the spirit and supernatural that we have not tapped into through our authority as believers…The earth is waiting for the manifest sons of the living God. Jesus conveyed himself away…he passed through the wall and appeared to Thomas and the gang…what about the mount of transfiguration…the works that he has done shall we do also and greater. I just believe this world is not going to suddenly turn into a utopia of peace for us to live here because why then would Jesus return and why the creation of a new heaven and new earth. I see it this way, the persecution will be hot but the sons of the living God will arise and manifest being able to escape through translocation and communicate through spiritual travel. I understand how the underground China all met at a remote location to worship with out even talking to one another. This is it this is what they know of the spirit being of who we are. We are spirit, we have a soul and live in this body. That phrase has a greater depth of meaning now and many of us have been preaching it for years. If being a spirit being is no more than what we have experienced thus far….awe! come on…there has to be more for God….he is GOOD! Jesus is our example not those who have tried to follow him. Venerate no man but the man the Christ, and his name is Jesus. Well, thank you for listening to my rant….the disturbance with in is the natural clashing against the spiritual…it takes a humbling of ones intellect and say I don’t know but I trust that if this is for me Lord I’m in. Teach me, show me…take me on a trip. I’ve done the same thing and then came across the Praying Medic’s book. read it and traveled some more. I prayed and cleared my mind of doubt, trusted my Jesus to lead me because I declared him to be my all in all. And to keep me from all that is false. It is truly a dimension of us, who we are as believers being made manifest. SPIRIT, Soul, body. Our dominate voice is usually our body or our reasoning in our soul. But trust and faith is of the heart, the spirit. …being born again of His spirit! Wanting to be conformed and to be like him! Ok, enough of my rant right now. Keep seeking and I pray you find a resolve and I pray that your whole, spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord. Leave nothing on the table!
Deborah Westenberg
Love your response, in complete agreement! ?
Anonymous
Love your response. Your words are as if I wrote them, its what I feel, but haven’t verbalized. I’m on the wright track. Teach me HS, teach me
Melody Nydam
Yes!
Winnie
I’m In the same boat as you Velda.
Melody Nydam
Velda, could it be that all we’ve heard as christians about spirit travel is done in the occult, so you are understandably nervous and the alarm bells are going off?
One thing I am beginning to understand about the devil is that he doesn’t have the ability or the power to come up with anything new. Doesn’t that mean he’s using God’s stuff to do his dirty work?
I believe when the bible says we can do “all things in Christ”, we can take it for what it says. I mean, if Jesus did it…?
After Peter walked on the water, they got back in the boat and, boom…immediately they were on the other side of the lake!
website.reader3@gmail.com
Melody, have you found any spiritual opposition? I live in a spiritually oppressed area, and when I try to engage in the spirit, demonic forces, usually the leadership comes to oppose me, sometimes viciously. I have not heard anyone comment about this, btw. Just curious as to what happens and if you hit the same things I do?
Michael Horton
You should feel disturbed. This is the occult practice disguised in christian language by a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is not taught from the bible but rather from the personal experiences of this man and his friends. God would have you flee repent and thank him for his mercy in delivering you from this false teacher and practices.
Tracey
I agree with you Michael- I am so disturbed by this site and the comments I’m reading. I pray that all readers will flee from this occultic stuff- immerse yourselves in the word of God which washes us, cleanses us, sanctifies us and renews our minds. May our desire be to glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through obedience to his word. These experiences serve merely to turn the unwary toward a false jesus and a false holy spirit – may those who say they serve our Lord diligently search the scriptures and find truth. ‘And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light’ 2 Corinthians 11:14
James Douglass Hutto
Yes and Amen. This is very encouraging.
RevealingTheSons
You don’t have a plain like button. I would have liked it if you did, but very cool testimony all the same.
Praying Medic
I had the “like” button, but visitors complained they were not able to use it.
toniacgb
Wooooooooowhooooooooo! Yes and amen!!
Randall
A similar thing happens with me, but last Tuesday night it intensified. The person from a foreign country tutoring me (who is a bonafide proven apostolic pastor) was both on the computer but the spirit with me. The Lord enabled me to hear her talking with the angels behind her, in my hallway and my living room, then the Lord enabled me to hear what one angel spoke to her “Do you think Randall will believe your words? We are concerned.” Then a few minutes later another angel spoke to me about what they were watching, when a high priestess of witchcraft zoomed in suddenly in the spirit and tried to cause a satanic curse to hit me and stay on me (it burned my arm) He said “We watched the power of God push off the curse and we were in awe watching the grace of God work inside you, because you are facing temptations which we angels do not, that you have to struggle against sin in your nature and its pull upon you. We are in awe of the grace of God at work in you human beings” He said more, but I politely decline to share. They did speak to me near the end of my tutoring session and said “Randall, if you keep seeking God and His holiness, then your communion will continue to grow, so keep seeking Him!” Seems like sound advice to me, “seek the Heavenly Father.”
I find it remarkable that similar things are happening out there too, like mine. Thank you for sharing this.
Praying Medic
Thanks for your testimony, Randall. Very helpful.
Melody Nydam
Let’s DO IT!
Matthew Robert Payne
This is amazing and wonderful
jparkh81
honest question for praying medic or anyone else that might have insight. I think I have left my body several times before. Years ago I got naively interested in astral projecting not realizing its connection with the occult and the dangers of it. I was and still am a christian so I didn’t want any part of witch craft but I thought it sounded fun so I tried it and through quieting my mind and focusing on vibrations in my body I managed to leave my body or at least it certainly felt like it. However I didn’t really see anything out of the ordinary. I could tell I was outside my body but the world around me wasn’t any different other than I could fly. I didn’t see any other being nor could I see any other humans. So I stopped because it seemed like a waste of time. I just order the traveling in the spirit book and hopefully it will make more sense of what I was doing and maybe I can do it again with more of a purpose. any thoughts are much appreciated. Was I really traveling in the spirit or was it more of a lucid dream if there is any difference? I can still do it if I really try and the conditions are right but like I said nothing significant happens when I do it and I always seem to snap back within just a few minutes. thanks
Michael Horton
Thisnis clearly the occult guys. This is exactly what our lord prophesied when he said in these last days there will be false prophets who would arise and perform lying signs and wonders in his name and if possible would fool even the elect. It is not possible so i submit to you that God would have you flee this false teaching repent of any participation in this garbage and praise Him for his mercy to spare you of these wolves in sheeps clothes.
Soli Dei Gloria!
Randall
Open letter to all readers:
I just received in my email the following message
in response to Michael Horton:
You should feel disturbed. This is the occult practice disguised in christian language by a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is not taught from the bible but rather from the personal experiences of this man and his friends. God would have you flee repent and thank him for his mercy in delivering you from this […]
I agree with you Michael- I am so disturbed by this site and the comments I’m reading. I pray that all readers will flee from this occultic stuff- immerse yourselves in the word of God which washes us, cleanses us, sanctifies us and renews our minds. May our desire be to glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through obedience to his word. These experiences serve merely to turn the unwary toward a false jesus and a false holy spirit – may those who say they serve our Lord diligently search the scriptures and find truth. ‘And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light’ 2 Corinthians 11:14
I have a set of questions which I want to ask all readers.
1. Since the Bible was given by men who had supernatural experiences and it was their personal experience, why should we trust Scriptures at all? After all, it was people having supernatural experiences, wasn’t it?
2. How do we know when a supernatural experience is legitimate? Some religions today claimed that an angel updated the Scriptures with a better understanding and now we have millions of followers. Do we just chuck the whole thing out? Which angels do we select or not?
3. If we throw out having a supernatural experience, which is what is suggested here, then why have any experience with God anyhow? After all we could be quickly fooled couldn’t we?
4. As one who has seen witches traveling in the spirit casting curses down on the congregation of unsuspecting Christians, shall we now say that this is off limits? And we better shut down spiritual warfare, because.. it is occultic?
5. When Jesus told Nathaniel “You shall see greater things than these” should we censor Jesus on the spot and tell him.. “Hey, Jesus, you got it wrong.. you need to tell Nathaniel.. get your face into the Torah”?
6. When people are complaining about all the occult practice.. I am forced to ask them “So where is the real?” Surely God is bigger than the devil, isn’t He? Or do we now admit that satan has one up on God?”
Sorry for the candor here, but I see too much religious answers which don’t display much careful thought or even Scriptural knowledge.
Did NOT the Word of God say that if we are careful to obey His word then He would give us access to Heaven? See Zech 3:7 and Psalms 24:3 on this. (this is the word of God btw)
Again, Jesus took the 3 disciples to the Mount of Transfiguration and they saw him talking to Moses and Elijah, so do we run screaming off the mountain “Heresy Heresy, we are talking to dead people, which the word of God forbids” in Isaiah 8:19
When Paul was visited by Jesus, do we dismiss him as having subjective personal experiences?
Actually EVERYTHING we experience is subjective.
The worst part is when Christians insist “GET INTO THE WORD OF GOD!”
I shudder at this point.. for the following reason —
We are insisting that OUR understanding of the word of God is the last say so, the fount of veracity, the bedrock of truth, the stone of judgment, when actually we hardly know the word of God at all.
Shouldn’t we have some humility here?
Who are we to insist that God is stuck with the Bible and He cannot do anything new at all, unless it agrees with our understanding of Scriptures? isn’t that a bit arrogant?
And who are we to insist that everything coming along is Godly? I have seen stupid stuff pass off as the latest from God, when it is actual foolishness worked by demons deluding and deceiving Christians.
The answer is that there IS a spiritual world, for too long we have neglected this, and NOT walked in the holiness of God which would have opened up our eyes to the truth, and we have allowed religious devils to control the situation far far too long.
I URGE ALL READERS – seek holiness, for that is a neglected key to getting this all sorted out.
Just my $0.02 worth and I am sure some will say .. “Yes worth $0.02!!”
PS I agree 100% of getting into the Word, perhaps all this is happening because we’re neglecting it?
Michael Horton
Hi Randall. Ill do my best to answer your questions as i think this is so important. The third Person of our Triune God is not involved in what the praying medic us teaching and encouraging. Its a different spirit altogether. To your questions:
Since the Bible was given by men who had supernatural experiences and it was their personal experience, why should we trust Scriptures at all? After all, it was people having supernatural experiences, wasn’t it?
We can trust the scripture because we know it was God breathed and God Himself testified to its authenticity with signs amd wonders. The Bible is not about the apostles you or me but about God. Its a unique book unlike any other because God Himself is the author and the verifier and the One who has preserved it for us.
. How do we know when a supernatural experience is legitimate? Some religions today claimed that an angel updated the Scriptures with a better understanding and now we have millions of followers. Do we just chuck the whole thing out? Which angels do we select or not?
Im not sure which religion you are referring to here. Acts chapter 2 describes the church as those who follow the apostles teachings participate in the means of grace (lords supper and baptism) and break bread together and pray together. Paul says that even if he or an angel were to come to you amd declare a different Gospel that they are accursed. We do not need to listen to angels as God HImself has given us the sure prophetic word in His scripture and it testifies of itself as being sufficient for all believers all time.
3. If we throw out having a supernatural experience, which is what is suggested here, then why have any experience with God anyhow? After all we could be quickly fooled couldn’t we?
4. As one who has seen witches traveling in the spirit casting curses down on the congregation of unsuspecting Christians, shall we now say that this is off limits? And we better shut down spiritual warfare, because.. it is occultic?
I will say that as Christians we have no need amd have not been instructed by God to see in the spirit the way you are describing it. Spiritual warfare is real but we pray in the parameters that God teaches us. The Lords prayer is the example. Ultimately God will protect His people. God has already bound the devil and his time is short. Spiritual warfare that involves you leaving your body and projecting yourself upon the astral plain is age old occult
5. When Jesus told Nathaniel “You shall see greater things than these” should we censor Jesus on the spot and tell him.. “Hey, Jesus, you got it wrong.. you need to tell Nathaniel.. get your face into the Torah”?
Have you considered what is the greater thing: Jesus causing Peter to walk on water or causing Peter to attain a new heart that Loves the Lord? Now take that and expand it across ages and geographic spaces. God saving sinners maki g enemies become children of the Most High is the greater thing. Nathaniel was also an eyewitness to Jesus’s earthly ministry death amd resurrection as well ss Pentecost. As i said earlier the Bible is a unique book that God used signs amd wonders to verify. It has been verified.
6. When people are complaining about all the occult practice.. I am forced to ask them “So where is the real?” Surely God is bigger than the devil, isn’t He? Or do we now admit that satan has one up on God?”
God certainly is bigger than the devil. The real is in the Bible. I am sorry if you find the scriptures insufficient and boring compared to the demonic but perhaps this is a red flag unto you? Satan is trying to make you dissatisfied with God and that is why you look with envy to occult practices. Dressing it up in christian language does not make it christian.
The uniqueness of the bible cannot be overstated and to read yourself into it is the height of hubris. It is first and foremost Gods self revelation of Himself to us so that we can know Him. To build doctrine like spiritual travel from your experience a d then cherry pick verses out of context to try to prove your errant practice is a sin.
I pray that you would hear this today amd consider that you are not seeking the Lord as he has revealed himself but are seeking after an experience that is satisfying to the flesh but dishonoring to God. I get you had a real experience but you have misinterpreted it as from God. Satan would have you continue in this amd teach others to do the same but if you are the Lords He has made a way for you to repent and come out of this today. I pray that you will.
Randall
After reviewing my answer, I saw on the web blog that I am responding to a person named Michael Horton. I politely refer to him as respondent, since I did NOT have his name from my email.
Hi Randall. Ill do my best to answer your questions as i think this is so important. The third Person of our Triune God is not involved in what the praying medic us teaching and encouraging. Its a different spirit altogether. To your questions:
I will attempt to answer as best as I can, but I apologize for the length of this reply.
I wrote “Since the Bible was given by men who had supernatural experiences and it was their personal experience, why should we trust Scriptures at all? After all, it was people having supernatural experiences, wasn’t it?
”
A person replied:
We can trust the scripture because we know it was God breathed and God Himself testified to its authenticity with signs amd wonders. The Bible is not about the apostles you or me but about God. Its a unique book unlike any other because God Himself is the author and the verifier and the One who has preserved it for us.
I agree with 2nd Tim 3:16 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” as I know that the respondent is quoting from this Scripture.
The question is WHICH Scripture. This is not the King James translation. It is NOT the NIV, nor anyone of the 100+ translations. Paul was writing about the Tanakh. The early church expanded the canon and added the New Testament writings to it to canonize the Scriptures. But as everyone knows, we only have copies of the original writings, not the original autographs.
So we are stuck using the best copies of the Hebrew, some Aramaic (Daniel) and Koine Greek autographs. However I do firmly believe that the Tanakh is very close to the original (since the Dead Sea scrolls proved the almost identical matching of Isaiah with modern copies) and analysis of the Koine Greek parchments establishes the veracity of the autographs, in a very remarkable way. Dr Philip Comfort’s book “Encountering the Manuscripts” is an excellent introduction to this.
I have theology school training and can trudge my way through the Greek and Hebrew.
What I failed to clearly state is that we have to be very careful when we make claims “The Bible IS the word of God” when all we have are man-made copies of the autographs. However they are reliable. I won’t get into a discussion of the pseudographica or the Apocrypha or Gnosis writings, as I just flat out relate them to mythology dressed up in Christian garb.
I attempted to ask the very important question, but the point is still being missed. My question has to do with “ontology” or the nature of being. Basically it asks the question “How do we know what we know?” The most rational answer to this important question is that the most rational man or woman is that person whose beliefs mirror reality.
I hold to the existence of external realities. There is an external physical reality and there is an external spiritual reality. I know that the latter is true from both the Scriptures and my personal experience.
Now to the question which I alluded. “Why do we believe the people who wrote the Scriptures?” All of us are subjective. So why believe their subjective experience ?
The best answer to me is that what they say carries ear-marks of supernatural revelation or authority. What they describe is beyond man’s ability to find out.
When someone gives a prophecy, which comes true hundreds of years later, then we have to admit that supernatural knowledge does exist. But what is the source?
When I stated “How do we know when a supernatural experience is legitimate? Some religions today claimed that an angel updated the Scriptures with a better understanding and now we have millions of followers. Do we just chuck the whole thing out? Which angels do we select or not?” I was offhandedly referring to the Church of Latter Day Saints and the purported angel named Moroni. Millions of people would hold that his visitation from heaven was legitimate, but when you carefully analyze the book of Mormon and take a look, you will discover that parts of it are plagiarisms of the King James Bible, including the inserted ellipsis, which is NOT the original scriptures. Additionally archeological findings do NOT give support to the claimed events in the some of the Mormon books taken as Scripture.
We find other writings taken as full authoritative Scriptures, I refer to the Qu’ran, for example. But textual criticism shows severe difficulties in the claim that these are inspired writings [I write this at risk of starting a flame war].
I hope this makes things clearer… I was trying to point out that people of different religions around the world claim divine writings, so how do we know which are REALLY divine and which are not?
The respondent continues…
I’m not sure which religion you are referring to here. Acts chapter 2 describes the church as those who follow the apostles teachings participate in the means of grace (lords supper and baptism) and break bread together and pray together. Paul says that even if he or an angel were to come to you and declare a different Gospel that they are accursed. We do not need to listen to angels as God Himself has given us the sure prophetic word in His scripture and it testifies of itself as being sufficient for all believers all time.
I agree 100% with what Paul said. We need to test everything BY the Scriptures, or shall I say “test everything by the best understanding that we can gather from the Tanakh and Nestle-Aland Greek texts”?? which is the best we have.
But I agree that deceptive religious spirits can appear as angels of light and give new doctrines. (such as the LDS church, for example)
But I need to ask an important question. When we say “listen to God ourselves” do we mean listen to the best mental thoughts we have when we read Scriptures? And call that listening to God? Or do we mean listening to God in our Spirit? Huge question.
Let me give you an example to show you how crucial this is.
Ephesians 5:6 states “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
Let me ask everyone this question, “is that wrath coming when we die and face God? Or is that wrath coming now?”
I was taught by both theologians and pastors that this verse meant “wrath will come in the future”, i.e. future tense. But actually if one is careful to study the Koine Greek, it says in present tense, middle voice, that wrath is coming. The middle voice seems to indicate that the wrath is a result of something which the person themselves did and I add that Paul picked his words very carefully.
So I carried a false idea of what Scriptures meant for decades, until finally the Holy Spirit alerted me that my understanding of Scriptures was incorrect.
That is why people go to divinity school, to become a theologian, to get things right, as best as possible.
So in summary I say that the best chance of coming to the correct understanding of Scriptures is going to be had by those who are studying the copies of the autographs and have years of training in Hebrew and Greek.
Unfortunately that lets out most of us and we have to rely on others for our understanding of Scriptures, don’t we?
This is why I said we have to be very careful claiming that we know Scriptures.
3. If we throw out having a supernatural experience, which is what is suggested here, then why have any experience with God anyhow? After all we could be quickly fooled couldn’t we?
I probably should have been more verbose at this point and said “How do we distinguish valid supernatural experience from invalid ones?” After all the patients in the mental asylyms claims that they are having legitimate experiences. And I have to grant that they are having objective experiences (of a false nature) not of their own making.
Most people know the difficulty of establishing authoritative supernatural experience and shy away from making truth claims or claims of absolute truth.
Now I come to something very important –
I wrote
4. As one who has seen witches traveling in the spirit casting curses down on the congregation of unsuspecting Christians, shall we now say that this is off limits? And we better shut down spiritual warfare, because.. it is occultic?
I have prayed in the Holy Spirit and also in English language to deal with the spiritual oppressions which I felt with my spirit. As I continued praying, God opened up my spiritual eyes to what was going on and this is what I saw, witches traveling overhead, raining down curses on the congregation.
I am not going to apologize for what I saw, it is what I saw.
The respondent writes
I will say that as Christians we have no need and have not been instructed by God to see in the spirit the way you are describing it. Spiritual warfare is real but we pray in the parameters that God teaches us. The Lords prayer is the example. Ultimately God will protect His people. God has already bound the devil and his time is short. Spiritual warfare that involves you leaving your body and projecting yourself upon the astral plain is age old occult
.
Actually there is a gift of the Holy Spirit called “Discerning of Spirits” 1st Cor 12:10 to another discerning of spirits. We read in both the old and new testaments of people who saw spirits, such as John the Revelator, in the book of Revelations.
So people do see in the spirit. Take a look at Ezekiel 1:1, then Matt 3:16 then Acts 7:56 to see that God allows this. God can open the heavens to whosoever He desires. I did NOT seek to have the heavens opened, rather I was praying to God and I was very concerned about the spiritual oppression which I felt in my spirit and the more I prayed, the more I was concerned about this oppression, as I felt (and knew) that the source was demonic. God allowed me to see that it was actually human caused, correctly my faulty intuition with true spiritual sight.
Now I admit I got a bit sarcastic in what I wrote next.
5. When Jesus told Nathaniel “You shall see greater things than these” should we censor Jesus on the spot and tell him.. “Hey, Jesus, you got it wrong.. you need to tell Nathaniel.. get your face into the Torah”?
I was trying to gently point out that we need to have humility here. Jesus did consider everything which His father showed Him to do and in this case, it was granting Nathaniel the opportunity to see angels ministering to the Son of Man, just as Jesus said.
The respondent continues
Have you considered what is the greater thing: Jesus causing Peter to walk on water or causing Peter to attain a new heart that Loves the Lord? Now take that and expand it across ages and geographic spaces. God saving sinners making enemies become children of the Most High is the greater thing. Nathaniel was also an eyewitness to Jesus’ earthly ministry death and resurrection as well as Pentecost. As i said earlier the Bible is a unique book that God used signs and wonders to verify. It has been verified.
I know what the respondent is saying, “let’s stick with Scriptures and not skate out on thin ice.” Now we are deciding what is the more significant item, having an experience or having a moral nature. I tend to shy away from moral claims of authority, because this tends to make us judges over the Scriptures and we end up saying things like the above. Sometimes God will use a simple thing like a healing, which is a supernatural miracle, in order to convert someone’s heart. Let’s let God be free to do what He wants, and if He wants to give Nathaniel a glimpse of angels attending the Son of Man, who are we to say that we attribute less authority to this? Are we more knowing than God?
We do need to have signs following our words, however, else it becomes man’s word again, and we all know that the 7 billion voices we hear are all the same. We need to hear from the Lord, with supernatural signs attesting to His word. (and yes I am aware that demons know this also and will attempt to mimic authority by their false signs and miracles, but at least we know that it isn’t human created anymore)
Now I attempted to ask another important question –
6. When people are complaining about all the occult practice.. I am forced to ask them “So where is the real?” Surely God is bigger than the devil, isn’t He? Or do we now admit that satan has one up on God?”
At this point the respondent missed what I was trying to say. I hope this person was not offended.
God certainly is bigger than the devil. The real is in the Bible. I am sorry if you find the scriptures insufficient and boring compared to the demonic but perhaps this is a red flag unto you? Satan is trying to make you dissatisfied with God and that is why you look with envy to occult practices. Dressing it up in christian language does not make it christian.
I state categorically GOD MOST CERTAINLY IS BIGGER THAN SATAN. There capital letters so no one misunderstands!
But we need to explain why the world is in such a horrible mess right now and getting worse. (but I won’t take the detour here)
I DO find the Scriptures all sufficient, in face I will make the bold claim, that most people do NOT know nor do they USE the Scriptures in the power of the Holy Spirit as God intends.
The verse in Romans 10:17 states “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” That word is ramah, or spoken word of God.
Again Jesus states “Man shall NOT live by bread alone, but by every word proceeding from the mouth of God” Matt 4:4 (that is present tense, spoken words, not bible words written down in black ink on paper) The interlinear says “every declaration going through the mouth of God” in active middle voice.
We need to get both joined up together if we have any sense.
Bible words alone → dry theology and men’s learnings
Spirit words alone → occultism, error and false religions
Please remember that Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and told them (the learned men of that time who memorized the Tanakh) (paraphrase) “You read but are still missing who I really am”
AMAZING!!!! This is what happens if you do Bible without the Holy Spirit.
Jesus makes it clear –
John 5:38-40
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
So even the best Bible students can just flat out totally miss God.
Once again, I am urging humility when we are making claims.
The respondent then continues on (I suppose as a straw man argument?)
The uniqueness of the bible cannot be overstated and to read yourself into it is the height of hubris. It is first and foremost Gods self revelation of Himself to us so that we can know Him. To build doctrine like spiritual travel from your experience and then cherry pick verses out of context to try to prove your errant practice is a sin.
I am NOT building a spiritual travel doctrine. But the Scriptures say that the Spirit of God picked Ezekiel up by a lock of hair and transported him. See Ezekiel 8:3 on this
Ezekiel 8:3 He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy.
If this isn’t spiritual transport, then I don’t know what is.
Did I say that I was seeking to spiritually travel? I am not aware that I did, nor would I use the Bible to promote “pet” doctrines.
My very reason for writing voluminously on this point is exactly the very same motive which is inspiring the respondent’s sternness with me. I am saying we need to be very careful here.
I want to ask the respondent, well actually ALL the readers this question.
“Cannot God pick and choose who HE wants today, to take to wherever He wants today, just as He did in both the Old and New Testaments?”
To those who state “This is wrong, God doesn’t do such things today” I will be forthright, you don’t know the power of God nor the Scriptures.
To those who know that God does this, then I want to make one statement which I attempted to do but apparently got missed again.
It is when a person is seeking holiness, just as God the Father stated in Lev 11:44 For I am the Lord your God. You shall therefore consecrate yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy.”
When I started seeking holiness, all of a sudden I realized that I had been missing the key, which God so clearly spoke. I started to see and recognize God in the spiritual world.
God kept His promise “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” Matt 5:8
The respondent asks me to consider my ways.
I pray that you would hear this today and consider that you are not seeking the Lord as he has revealed himself but are seeking after an experience that is satisfying to the flesh but dishonoring to God. I get you had a real experience but you have misinterpreted it as from God. Satan would have you continue in this and teach others to do the same but if you are the Lords He has made a way for you to repent and come out of this today. I pray that you will.
At this point, my heart begins to get heavy. I have failed in my job to try to get careful thought going. This person believes that I am seeking experiences, when whatever I have learned about the spiritual world has come through seeking God the Father alone, just as He wishes.
Again, I plead, why is it that people who practice the occult have one over on us Christians? We rather should have a sufficient answer to these people and give them the full counsel of God. Just throwing Bible words at them isn’t going to work, but demonstrating that we also are familiar with their practices but we are willing to point out where they have gone wrong is a much better approach, because they will sense our inherent authority, which comes from having the experience, so we can judge the profane from the true.
Now I will make another statement which won’t make me popular with anyone.
I am VERY concerned about what is happening, and I keep asking everyone from Praying Medic on down.. How do we know that we are not being deceived by powerful mental occult spirits? I have been caught up into the spiritual world and have experienced the incredible mental powers of beings hundreds of times more powerful than us, and they have incredible ways of casting mental illusions and deceptions. Why do you think it is called dementia, in the mental wards? I have seen these beings deliberately mislead Christians astray into false doctrines and practices.
But I cannot give into fear and anxiety about this. I am trying to raise this issue so that we all can discuss it, not start throwing Bible verses at each other, which is what the flesh likes.
I am not sure if the person below is the same, but I quote
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Randall
I’m taking the time to respond because even though i don’t know you i care about you. I’m not interested in winning an argument but of winning a brother back from deception. I got family who is in this same hole so the error is close to home. Please consider what I’m saying. Please consider that the Bible is simply stated and actually understandable.
My response to this?
1. I appreciate your time that took to write to me. I DO KNOW that you care and I appreciate this.
2. My heart aches because your family is stuck in occultic practices. We need teachers from God who will teach the truth.
3. I have taken the time to write this response. (hopefully I won’t have to write another more careful response)
4. I agree that Scriptures are understandable. I never said that they were not. I said that I have been taught wrongly by people of the letter, not people of the Holy Spirit (and I am not talking astral travel folks)
Finally I want to share that we need to pray for holiness, we need to pray for humility and we need to pray for the presence of God. What is missing is that most people do NOT sense Jesus Christ emanating from
our spirits, either we’re dead, full of religious words, or ourselves, full of flesh. People NEED to see a living God inside us, not how well we can quote Scriptures, for people are looking for the life behind our words.
And yes, to all readers, I say I need to remind myself that this applies to me too.
Thank you all for considering what I have written. Is there anyone who is willing to talk about the possible dangers attending to what we are learning?
Michael Horton
Randall
Im taking the time to respond because even though i dont know you i care about you. Im not interested in winning an argument but of winning a brother back from deception. I got family who is in this same hole so the error is close to home. Please considr what im saying. Please consider that the Bible is simply stated and actually understandable.
Matthew Schardt II
I really love it that you share testimonies on this website. I believe they help increase faith. Please keep on sharing testimonies. I wonder if you may share testimonies about people developing spiritual eyesight. I heard about Jonathan Welton, author of “The School of The Seers” and some of the things he sees with his spiritual eyesight. Spiritual eyesight is sounds amazing. I also find the testimony of your wife developing spiritual eyesight in the book “Seeing In The Spirit Made Simple” you wrote. So, in conclusion, I encourage you to keep on sharing testimonies because they help increase my faith. May God bless you.